Curse

Odd Sock · Aug 13, 2005, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Hello Gaile, how's it going ?

As a member of the PvP community I feel a little left out that you never really give solid replies to PvP questions and yet visit the threads that have Sorrow's Furnace and PvE related issues. Many members of the PvP community, myself included, would like to get a clear and definitive answer to the following questions:

- When will the fix to Nature's Renewal be made ? Not a number but would appreciate if you would tell us if it's going to be in a week, two weeks, a month or a few months
- Same reply in reference to Fertile Season
- Many skills in this game are incredibly useless and offer no strategic elements to the game. Bringing such skills only hampers one's build both in PvE and PvP. The best example is Rust. Who would bring such a skill ? There are other skills like this that once the numbers are crunched really aren't worth it at all. Will there be a rebalance of most skills in a forseable future ?
- What is the current state of the alpha test ? Have all efforts gone into PvE and PvP has taken a dive ? Are there All-Calls dedicated to testing PvP portions of thegame ?
- I hope the developpers realize that before implementing new skills they should rebalance the existing ones.

This isn't a flame bait of any sort and I don't want the thread to become a huge argument. Just some clear non-BS answers will suffice.

Thanks in advance

Orochim4ru · Aug 13, 2005, 05:43 PM // 17:43

PvP only for faction unlocks.

DarkWasp · Aug 13, 2005, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Well if you read the latest update letter, that answers some of your questions.

Some of the others are an opinion. And I dont think I have ever seen a dev respond to a direct dev addressed topic. You could be a first if they respond

.

I remember back when the build was W/mos and a few monks. It was all run in and take heavy damage. Now its all monks and eles, the run away and pray you dont chip a nail doing so. And then those groups started using enchants so they could hold up more. So a bunch of rangers flood in spreading spirits like rabbits that drain energy and kill enchants. And now the warriors are comming back to kill the rangers.

Every build has a weakness and for monks, its usualy NR. So if they did answer your first question it would most likely be no. I could be wrong though.

Tuna · Aug 13, 2005, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkWasp

I remember back when the build was W/mos and a few monks. It was all run in and take heavy damage. Now its all monks and eles, the run away and pray you dont chip a nail doing so. And then those groups started using enchants so they could hold up more. So a bunch of rangers flood in spreading spirits like rabbits that drain energy and kill enchants. And now the warriors are comming back to kill the rangers.

This is true, as thats the only real way that paper-rock-scissors game can work without it being total luck. However we hit a problem were the cycle can't advance. Hexes + enchantments beat warriors (argue somewhere else) but NR is the end all for them. So basically once something like this happens the meta game is largely stuck. The whole premise of GW is that this doesn't happen, so it would seem that it should be taken care of 'rather' soon.

Aracos79 · Aug 13, 2005, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

This is true, as thats the only real way that paper-rock-scissors game can work without it being total luck. However we hit a problem were the cycle can't advance. Hexes + enchantments beat warriors (argue somewhere else) but NR is the end all for them. So basically once something like this happens the meta game is largely stuck. The whole premise of GW is that this doesn't happen, so it would seem that it should be taken care of 'rather' soon.

I think this accurately sums up what has happened in PvP. The metagame seemed to be working nicely, as above posters elaborated on, until the NR/spirit spam build arrived. Now we have a build that is an order of magnitude more powerful than it's competition. So instead of rock/paper/scissors, we have "rock of friggin gibraltar"/"everything else". This is preventing the metagame from moving forward and evolving very much.

arredondo · Aug 13, 2005, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Hi! I'm Gaile's best friend, Leroy (ok, maybe not). Let me see if I can help you answer some of your questions.

Quote:

- When will the fix to Nature's Renewal be made ? Not a number but would appreciate if you would tell us if it's going to be in a week, two weeks, a month or a few months

- Same reply in reference to Fertile Season

The last 'State of the Game' letter implied that re-balance of skills will take place before a new season and will be announced so as not to scew up the current plans designed by teams. This may or may not include spirit adjustments. Additionally, it seems that NR and FS spamming hasn't stopped some non-Ranger teams from succedding (as rare a it is right now)... how about figuring out what they are doing tin against these skills?

Quote:

- Many skills in this game are incredibly useless and offer no strategic elements to the game. Bringing such skills only hampers one's build both in PvE and PvP. The best example is Rust. Who would bring such a skill ? There are other skills like this that once the numbers are crunched really aren't worth it at all. Will there be a rebalance of most skills in a forseable future ?

One man's garbage is amother man's treasure. In energy draining builds that target monks, what do the healers do when the mana's near 0 to stay active? Signet rings. Mesmers have a number of Signet rings that might be combined to disrupt another team's plans as well.

Something like Rust is perfect in shutting down those strats, as it lasts for 35+ seconds (with high stats) in making them take 3x longer to cast something not affected by Nature's Renewal or other anti-cast time skills. Sure, it's not used NOW by many, but don't ask for a tool adjustment to something a select few may find to be awesome in their builds if/when Signet shutdown becomes more significant.

Quote:

- What is the current state of the alpha test ? Have all efforts gone into PvE and PvP has taken a dive ? Are there All-Calls dedicated to testing PvP portions of thegame ?

The last letter says they are doing internal testing with their new ideas. We have to wait for further announcements.

Quote:

- I hope the developpers realize that before implementing new skills they should rebalance the existing ones.

Maybe. Or maybe people are still slowly learning what beats what. We'll see because IMHO, if the answers are already in the game and not enough people are using it, then no major changes neew to be made. If it turns out that all the complaints are correct from what ANet knows of their system, they'll make some decisions on adjustments I'm sure.

The only adjustment I hope they finally wake up to realizing is that UAX in some form is an important part of serious competitive play, as in any serious competitive activity other than GW. Anything less takes away from skillful, fair competition by forcing PvE play mechanics into a mode where it doesn't fit. I can play for hundreds of hours in PvE mode without forced PvP elements, and only want the same when I'm in PvP mode.

From the letter, apparently more faction adjustments will be made eventually - if skills icons, equipment, and other related gear costs 90% less and our faction earnings are doubled, that would take care of this problem. Best thing is to eliminate it altogether and give PvE members tons of gameplay rewards that don't involve things needed during the planning stages of PvP so they can feel their adventuring will still offer valuable goodies at the end.

Tuna · Aug 13, 2005, 07:46 PM // 19:46

It was either here or at tgh where Gaile said she was going to ask the devs and NR imbalances. I wonder what responce she got.

Zuggy · Aug 13, 2005, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odd Sock

- Many skills in this game are incredibly useless and offer no strategic elements to the game. Bringing such skills only hampers one's build both in PvE and PvP. The best example is Rust. Who would bring such a skill ? There are other skills like this that once the numbers are crunched really aren't worth it at all. Will there be a rebalance of most skills in a forseable future ?

What do you mean rust is useless? Every proffesion has several signets, and wouldn't it be nice to kill that last person in PvP before they get their rez signet off on their monk with light of dwayna? Yes it would. I've only seen a couple skills that are useless in PvP but always have a use in PvE like winter. It has little use in PvP (accept to cancel aeromancer armor if using a spiker build) but it is almost essential to beat the missions in the Ring or Fire missions.

Tuna · Aug 13, 2005, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Or you could take an extra damage skill for the same affect.

Seron Dalar · Aug 13, 2005, 07:59 PM // 19:59

^^Uh... Mantra of Frost, anyone?

Nash · Aug 13, 2005, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Yes, beware of the Monk with Light of Dwayna... Those pesky DW healers are really a nuisance.

Quebec Osti · Aug 13, 2005, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuggy

What do you mean rust is useless? Every proffesion has several signets, and wouldn't it be nice to kill that last person in PvP before they get their rez signet off on their monk with light of dwayna?

There are not enough signet to make rust usefull in any build atm really... Putting rust on somene at the end so he doesnt res wont be "usefull" as u most likely alrdy won...Its just a wasted slot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuggy

I've only seen a couple skills that are useless in PvP but always have a use in PvE like winter. It has little use in PvP (accept to cancel aeromancer armor if using a spiker build) but it is almost essential to beat the missions in the Ring or Fire missions.

Winter is FAR from useless in pvp... and far from necesary in RoF also

DarkWasp · Aug 13, 2005, 08:33 PM // 20:33

I think the problem is. If you do anything to NR. Smiters wouldnt have much of a counter. Maybe a team of necros, or mesmers.

Appearantly NR is causing a stop in the constant circle of changing builds. I still dont understand it, and im not going to go read a 33 page flame war to figure out what it is.

All I know, is theres probably an ingame solution to the problem and nobody has figured it out yet.

Come to think of it, theres nothing you can do about shouts and stances.

Phades · Aug 13, 2005, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkWasp

Come to think of it, theres nothing you can do about shouts and stances.

Wild blow for stances, but its not like the stances affect multiple characters. Of course only one shout is offensive in nature and even that can be limited in a number of ways by denying the adrenalin gain. Other shouts dont really have a counter, but many of them either suck so bad that having a counter to them would cause many people to laugh, or are very situational in nature and defensive in addition to having small areas of effect. In some instances the shout effects are duplicated in other areas with a more potent and more sustainable effect.

Zuggy · Aug 13, 2005, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quebec Osti

Winter is FAR from useless in pvp... and far from necesary in RoF also

Enlighten me about pvp

Bleidd · Aug 13, 2005, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuggy

Enlighten me about pvp

I would imagine it has to do with the fact few people wear armour with a bonus vs cold attacks. Aeromancer seems to be the most common among Elementalists; rarely do I see a Ranger in Frostbound. Add to it a Mantra of Frost and you take very little damage from the enemy's elemental attacks as well.

ManadartheHealer · Aug 13, 2005, 09:34 PM // 21:34

If you use Greater Conflag+Winter, I am pretty sure that then ALL damage would be cold damage

Bast · Aug 13, 2005, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odd Sock

Hello Gaile, how's it going ?

As a member of the PvP community I feel a little left out that you never really give solid replies to PvP questions and yet visit the threads that have Sorrow's Furnace and PvE related issues. Many members of the PvP community, myself included, would like to get a clear and definitive answer to the following questions:

- When will the fix to Nature's Renewal be made ? Not a number but would appreciate if you would tell us if it's going to be in a week, two weeks, a month or a few months
- Same reply in reference to Fertile Season
- Many skills in this game are incredibly useless and offer no strategic elements to the game. Bringing such skills only hampers one's build both in PvE and PvP. The best example is Rust. Who would bring such a skill ? There are other skills like this that once the numbers are crunched really aren't worth it at all. Will there be a rebalance of most skills in a forseable future ?
- What is the current state of the alpha test ? Have all efforts gone into PvE and PvP has taken a dive ? Are there All-Calls dedicated to testing PvP portions of thegame ?
- I hope the developpers realize that before implementing new skills they should rebalance the existing ones.

This isn't a flame bait of any sort and I don't want the thread to become a huge argument. Just some clear non-BS answers will suffice.

Thanks in advance

This is the topic. Stay on it.

Many of us would like something beyond vague indications that ArenaNet is doing something about it. Many of us would also like for those of you who want to debate Winter in a thread that has nothing to do with Winter to go post it somewhere else.

Sekkira · Aug 13, 2005, 10:36 PM // 22:36

As I said a while ago, maybe there isn't anything wrong with Nature's Renewal. Maybe the devs intended it that way. Maybe it's not so powerful, but we idiots just haven't found a counter to it and the devs are laughing it up over it.

Aniewiel · Aug 14, 2005, 12:29 AM // 00:29

OK I have cleaned out flames and useless doo doo from this thread and will reopen it on the condition that everyone stays on topic. If you want to flame or add comments that are not on topic, this will be closed faster than someone's mouth when the dentist hits a raw nerve. OddSock has posted a decent thread that deserves attention, not a flame war. Take it to PMs if you can't be civil and ON TOPIC.

In case anyone's forgotten the topic:

Quote:

Originally Posted by OddSock

Hello Gaile, how's it going ?

As a member of the PvP community I feel a little left out that you never really give solid replies to PvP questions and yet visit the threads that have Sorrow's Furnace and PvE related issues. Many members of the PvP community, myself included, would like to get a clear and definitive answer to the following questions:

- When will the fix to Nature's Renewal be made ? Not a number but would appreciate if you would tell us if it's going to be in a week, two weeks, a month or a few months.
- Same reply in reference to Fertile Season.
- Many skills in this game are incredibly useless and offer no strategic elements to the game. Bringing such skills only hampers one's build both in PvE and PvP. The best example is Rust. Who would bring such a skill ? There are other skills like this that once the numbers are crunched really aren't worth it at all. Will there be a rebalance of most skills in a forseable future ?
- What is the current state of the alpha test ? Have all efforts gone into PvE and PvP has taken a dive ? Are there All-Calls dedicated to testing PvP portions of thegame ?
- I hope the developers realize that before implementing new skills they should rebalance the existing ones.

This isn't a flame bait of any sort and I don't want the thread to become a huge argument. Just some clear non-BS answers will suffice.

Thanks in advance.